CPS-NG

Thanks for setting up a forum for us; it is very much appreciated.  One of the great features of the CPS X version was its ability to load the fuel and payload straight onto Concorde (FSL for FSX); will that be the same with CPS-NG for  Concorde FXP version 3?  Similarly, CPS X loaded the route into the INS; will that be still possible for Concorde FXP V 3?  

I'm sure that this forum will be 'the' place to gather for all Concorde enthusiasts.  Thanks for all you do.

cheers

Hi Speedy,

Thanks for the kind words.

CPS-NG as CPS-X will be able to load fuel and load on the previous versions, but not withe future FSL Concorde for P3Dv5 which has Its own flight planner.

Concerning Concorde FXP V3, I am working to make it possible but I have very little information on the possibilities of doing so.
I will contact Gaston Reif who develops a great mod Concorde Heritage avionics package.
Maybe this will be possible thanks to his work.

If you have any information I am a taker.

Cheers
 

Bonjour Pierre,
MIKE08

Hello Pierre,
Thank you for opening the CPS-NG Forum
For the import of Fuel in the various tanks of Concorde, I was aware that it was almost impossible according to the current conditions.
I had myself made a "lua" script to correctly fill the fuel tanks according to the total amount of fuel following the AIR FRANCE filling rule.
But my script did not work (although it works for another plane) because it was systematically overwritten by the original COLIMATA script
I had also contacted Gaston Reif who was thinking of creating a script for his next version, but apparently he didn't succeed.

Now, I think I can still force this cursed script, I'll have to do some more small or big tests
See you soon
MIKE08

Hi Michel,

Please, in the future would you write your message in English for a better homogeneity.

I took the liberty of adding the English translation of your message.

Thanks
Pierre

Hello all.

Some of you may be aware of this but I just wanted to advise those using the X-Plane Concorde with the latest version of the Heritage package.

It seems as though the ground refuelling logic which Gaston created for his mod actually distributes the fuel in the way that CPS calculates it should be.

If you load the aircraft with approx landing fuel and power it up, then change the fuel to the desired amount, then start the ground refuelling procedure, the fuel is slowly loaded in accordance with the CPS profile. Need to do more tests to verify how reliable, but initial results are promising. Flew a sector from GCFV-EGKK after a ground refuelling today.

Hi Jason,

Excellent news indeed.

Thank you for the research and testing you're doing.
The possibility of having a good compatibility with X-Plane grows thanks to you.

Hello all.

It does seem as though the Heritage avionics mod on the X-Plane Concorde gives a more realistic loadout of the fuel distribution when the ground refuelling process is followed. If there are plans to introduce a change to the way fuel is pre loaded in CPS to fit the X-Plane Concorde, it might be nice to allow the user to change the preset for how fuel is distributed. IE, allow the more realistic CPS current distribution rules (which can be set in X-Plane) or use the colimata logic, which more or less is just the total fuel distributed evenly amongst the tanks for a neutral CG (as if loading the plane fuelled up already).

Also not sure if this is the place but the latest version of CPS-NG is quite stable for me

Hi,

thank you first for your involvement in the CPS-NG project.

Thank you also for making the link between CPS-NG and Colimata and Heritage.

Now that the program is stabilized, I will be able to devote more time to the X-Plane part of the project.

The general idea is to allow the user to choose between exporting raw data to Colimata and exporting refined data to Heritage.
For this I plan to open a dialog box when the user clicks on the Export to X-Plane button.
This dialogue box will allow to select the type of export: Colimata or Heritage...

What do you think about ?

Quote from: pierre on Jun 02, 2023, 09:19 AMHi,

thank you first for your involvement in the CPS-NG project.

Thank you also for making the link between CPS-NG and Colimata and Heritage.

Now that the program is stabilized, I will be able to devote more time to the X-Plane part of the project.

The general idea is to allow the user to choose between exporting raw data to Colimata and exporting refined data to Heritage.
For this I plan to open a dialog box when the user clicks on the Export to X-Plane button.
This dialogue box will allow to select the type of export: Colimata or Heritage...

What do you think about ?

Thank you very much!

Yes that does sound like it would work quite well.

I suppose the Colimata export would be the basic option as it will just enter the fuel as per the X-Plane logic (not technically correct).

If you were to export with the heritage logic in mind I think there are 2 options here.

Option 1: The aircraft is loaded with about 20 tonnes fuel in X-Plane, after CPS export the front fuel contents goes up to the block fuel.
From here the user completes the ground refuel procedure (open standby inlets) and the heritage contents increase to the desired amount.

Option 2: This would probably require collaboration directly with Gaston. His fuel system fully supports the real world fuel distribution but currently only achievable through the ground refuel procedure. It might be possible to export directly to his fuel tanks however. Will have to ask him.

Is Gaston in this forum?

Quote from: TheSimPilot96 on Jun 02, 2023, 02:40 PMIs Gaston in this forum?

Unfortunately no.
He would of course be welcome.

Regarding Colimata, it is very easy to export the total fuel and payload with a simple script (Forian Müller very kindly provided us with the dataset for this).
Regarding Heritage, I think it is possible according to Mike08, to export the fuel for each tank. For the payload, I have no information.

Quote from: pierre on Jun 02, 2023, 04:01 PMRegarding Colimata, it is very easy to export the total fuel and payload with a simple script (Forian Müller very kindly provided us with the dataset for this).
Regarding Heritage, I think it is possible according to Mike08, to export the fuel for each tank. For the payload, I have no information.

Thats great news. The X-Plane payload like you say, is distributed for an equal CG so hopefully it's not a significant factor provided pilots are loading in a uniform sense.

I need to speak to Mike08 then or get Gaston on this forum maybe. I know he still actively develops his mod.

Will do an LHR-JFK sector today and record the fuel distribution and maybe post here somewhere 

You can send a PM to Mike08 without problem.

Thanks a lot for your help.

Quote from: TheSimPilot96 on Jun 02, 2023, 04:13 PM

Quote from: pierre on Jun 02, 2023, 04:01 PMRegarding Colimata, it is very easy to export the total fuel and payload with a simple script (Forian Müller very kindly provided us with the dataset for this).
Regarding Heritage, I think it is possible according to Mike08, to export the fuel for each tank. For the payload, I have no information.

Thats great news. The X-Plane payload like you say, is distributed for an equal CG so hopefully it's not a significant factor provided pilots are loading in a uniform sense.

I need to speak to Mike08 then or get Gaston on this forum maybe. I know he still actively develops his mod.

Will do an LHR-JFK sector today and record the fuel distribution and maybe post here somewhere

With Colimata, I just have to send the total payload weight to Concorde FXP.

Hi there, for Heritage avionics package i need to know how and when CPS exports fuel and payload.
It sits on top of Colimata FXP so what you send to Colimata FXP before batteries are ON it loads.
If you use CPS when batteries are already ON then refuel procedure must be done. Easy. Hope this helps.

Quote from: gastonreif on Jun 02, 2023, 11:22 PMHi there, for Heritage avionics package i need to know how and when CPS exports fuel and payload.
It sits on top of Colimata FXP so what you send to Colimata FXP before batteries are ON it loads.
If you use CPS when batteries are already ON then refuel procedure must be done. Easy. Hope this helps.

This is effectively what I am currently doing at the moment. Pre load 20 tonnes, turn on the aircraft, set the new fuel load in X-Plane menu, open the inlets to refuel. Results in a correct fuel distribution.  ;D

I recorded a video of this process today but don't know where to upload, also screen shots of the fuel distribution as it is loaded slowly onto the aircraft. Shall I just put it on Youtube and link here?

Hello Gaston and Jason,

Until now, CPS only calculates the amount of fuel required for a planned trip and for a given payload, taking into account the departure, en route and arrival weather.
So, the export of fuel and payload data is done according to the simulator or the addon used.
For FSLabs, it is simply (Up to the version for P3Dv3) one of two XML files (Fuel and Load) that are placed in the intended folder as if they were generated by FsLabs.

Regarding Colimata and the mod of Gaston, two lua scripts are being studied by our friend Mike08 to load the fuel and the loading in one or the other.
From what I've seen, it takes into account the battery status.

CPS, on the other hand, simply sends the calculated values to the script used, then launches its execution.

If you need any further information, I'm at your disposal.

Hope this help.

Pierre

Quote from: TheSimPilot96 on Jun 02, 2023, 11:52 PMI recorded a video of this process today but don't know where to upload, also screen shots of the fuel distribution as it is loaded slowly onto the aircraft. Shall I just put it on Youtube and link here?

You can  upload your video on Youtube then link here without problem.

Thanks a lot

Pierre

Quote from: pierre on Jun 03, 2023, 10:41 AM

Quote from: TheSimPilot96 on Jun 02, 2023, 11:52 PMI recorded a video of this process today but don't know where to upload, also screen shots of the fuel distribution as it is loaded slowly onto the aircraft. Shall I just put it on Youtube and link here?

You can  upload your video on Youtube then link here without problem.

Thanks a lot

Pierre

The first video shows the process. The second one shows the fuel tanks at different stages of the refuel.[url="https://concordeperformancesystem.org/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;attach=176;type=preview;file"]EGLL-KJFK.pdf[/url]

Hi Jason,

Great job indeed!

Just a remark: In the first video, I think things are moving a little fast.

Just my thoughts.

That's actually me using the sim at normal speeds! I guess I was rushed to meet my TOBT 😅

I'll see if I can reduce the playback speed

Hello @gastonreif

I understand you are working towards a new version of the Heritage mod with 'experimental CofG'. A question if I may.

Will this bring the fuel transfer/trim envelope to be more in line with the numbers that CPS-NG calculates? I have the following observations with the current version of Colimata and your mod.

- When fully loaded with fuel and payload, the block CofG is much further forward than CPS-NG and it is impossible to set 53.5% or anything higher than 53% in X-Plane. In real aircraft 53.5 can be achieved for close to MTOW.

- When in supersonic cruise, it is very easy to achieve 59%+ CG in Xplane and requires much less fuel in the rear of the aircraft to accomplish. It is in reality much harder to do this and requires very aft fuel transfers. I have attached a copy from the flight manual showing what kind of fuel transfers would be needed in a certain configuration. There is also a visible upward elevon deflection despite the aft trim indicated in X-Plane.

I'm pleased to see that the essential mechanics and pumps/inlets are working fairly well to facilitate the needed transfers.

Maybe this major CG envelope change will need to be completed by Colimata themselves but I am just curious.

Thanks,

Jason

The charts:

ZFW: 88600kg
ZFWCG: 52.2%

CG of 58.7% could only be achieved with:

Tanks 9/10: empty
Tank 11: full (10500kg)
Tanks 5a/7a: full (2250kg each)
Tanks 1/4 in aft trim mode (1650kg each)
Other tanks drained normally.

If I empty the fuel tanks this way in X-Plane the CG could be as far back as 60%!

CoG adjustment is at the bottom of the todo list. Too soon to talk about. Your observations are known to me.

No problem! Just wondered if it was in the works. It's not a showstopper.

Thank you